Is grief for the loss of a closed one an action of love or its just self pity? | Meditative Diaries

TO LIVE IS TO DIE

the-art-of-dying

Is grief for the loss of a closed one an action of love or its just self pity?

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A few months ago the writer had an insight on death.. actually it was an insight on living and dying. The writer found that to live is to die. Today, after an incident that happened, I would like to delve into this intense pain and grieving that is following the death of a beloved one. There is a common belief that we grieve for the one we used to love and is now dead. We will show this is not the case, that this grieving has nothing to do with love!

We’ve found in that previous diary that we know nothing about what happens after death. The only thing we know is that the body dies, the brain dies, and memories, images, ideas, habits, fears, all die with it. This is a fact, not a strange idea of the writer.

And once one dies, his/her closed ones are grieving, they are experiencing a most acute pain. Why is this happening? Its quite obvious that they can do nothing to bring the dead back. They are sad for the person that died, but this person doesn’t exist anymore. So they are grieving for a dead memory. Its seems this pain is irrelevant to the dead one. This man/woman died and this can’t change. The dead is not feeling pain, the dead is not suffering, the dead doesn’t even exist. So this grieving is definitely not a love action for the dead.

So why are we grieving, why are we in pain? Which is the root of our sorrow? Or even better, Who is (in) Sorrow? Isn’t the Me, the Ego? Isn’t it the Ego that was used to the presence of the dead person? Isn’t it the Ego that was attached to the dead? The Ego which was feeling secure by means of this familiar, habitual, repetitive relationship * with the one that died. And now this person (to whom we used to depend on) doesn’t exist anymore so there is fear, insecurity, a feeling of emptiness, a sense of vanity, an utter loneliness **.

So what is actually the root of this grieving, this suffering? It appears to be quite clear now: its the the pity for the self, itself! Its just self pity, nothing noble, nothing precious, nothing that has to do with love. We suffer because the known, the familiar, the secure, the comfortable, was destroyed. And not being able to live happily into the unknown (is it really inevitable?)  we just feel self pity about this loss of the known..

Yet you shouldn’t accept what is showed here. You need to investigate on your own, to see the truth or falseness of it.

* We may investigate whether this was a real or a fake relationship
** If someone is really observative, one will find that there was an illusion of non loneliness before the death, not actual non loneliness – it would also be interesting to delve at this.

Comments

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Jorge Kapa

The speaker is never important but you may examine the message, if you wish

86 Comments

  1. There are also relationships not self centered, very deep , also animals are moved emotionally if they are losing a member of the family. To feel deeply the pain , deep sorrow, out of a loss, is helping one to be serious if there are not other escapings to find releasment. What is important is not to escape sorrow but also not to invite it intentionally by provoking it recalling memories . Intentionally not to make any movement . But as sorrow is wiping us, be completely identified with it , there must be awareness , feeling totally the pain but the will to be totally out. Sorrow without conscious , intentional , interference is pure sorrow that it is connecting us directly with the depths of the being. So , be serious in the most sacred for us moments, be totally opened and not partial movements of self pity or have a profit by sorrow.

  2. Strange how invested we are in our relationships. When those closest to us die, it is as though a big part of us dies with them. K once said: tell a person you’re close to who is facing death that part of you will go with them so wherever they go, they won’t be alone.

  3. the loved ones differ in each birth/we are not the body-intellectually understanding & experiencing the same are different/we can have th sartrean passion/we can have the insight & understanding like samuel beckett/finally copious intellectual salivation must give way to calming the mind/nothing to be done!!! enjoy the flow or cessation of thoughts as play of the divine/catch is in richness/bank balances/race/dna etc!!!!

  4. We ‘know’ that all these things die with the body and brain…how do we ‘know’ this??? Other than the decaying of the physical body and the inactivity of the brain after death, what do we REALLY know…

    • I dont know but if memories can invoke the movement of energy then who’s to say they dont live on in the minds of others…and what of images and ideas, images may only occupy the mind but an idea can become an entity in its own right no?

  5. Read slowly.

    Memory is stored in our genes.
    All we need to know about life on earth is already programed in our brain.
    This I within is born from the whole, consciousness is recycled. We only stay aware till the event horizon of the big bang unity. The unity disintegrates all we ever felt or knew, a baby is born afreash yet inherits the already programmed genes ..

  6. One theory in regard to physical traits is that genetic memory represents the recorded history of adaptive changes in a species. Another as to psychological traits is that there is a collective unconscious where memories and related feelings and ideas are stored.

    • Arun Malik if we are fixed by genetic memory, how could there be adaptive changes of the species? Clearly there are inherited traits but the capacity for change is also present is it not?

    • Collective consciousness exists in space and time, the genes have the ability to store the whole evolution,
      Death is the protective gateway,
      The being within returns home thru this door.
      He/she Ceases to exist in space and time emotionally. Love is home. The Unity, the oneness.

  7. [Greg you are right. A part of us also dies. How is it that a part of us also dies. We are defined by our interactions and our relationships. The image we have of ourselves is partly in response to the other person who is before us. And then when this person is no longer there, there is no longer that person which reinforces this image. This is where it would seem that part of us also dies…..that mirror is no longer there…..that reflection is no longer there….so a part of is has also died.

    This is perhaps why death and sorrow from death is an opener, as it shows is potentially that we are made of images and reflections].

  8. Well if you had total amnesia you would have to be kept alive artificially as you could not function. Having a father that died with dementia and a mother that died with Alzheimers, I have seen what it is to die while living.

    • They did die while living.
      Memory is a very important function for us to survive.. We are dead without memory.
      Emotional well being in a healthy brain requires us to live as is in the present.
      Life is all what we got. It is precious, Love and sorrow are very closely related, the warmth of the parents love and bond stays with us all our lives.

    • Studies show that the particular part of the brain that is compromised accounts for the kind of memory that is lost. Past memory of self and relationships may be sbsent while language and basic functioning memory is in tact. The memory may be still there but ability to retrieve it is diminished.

    • yep,
      i am sure when you attended to them you felt their innocence and childlike being had returned.
      Emotionally love protects us very deeply. ill health opens the dimension of love for us to cope. till we exit the body..

  9. i don’t know why we should focus on genes (i am a biologist but i can’t watch this discussion regarding collective consciousness and genes)..

    there is a man that gradually builds an idea that another man is necessary for his well being by psychologically registering memories. And suddenly this other man dies.Its the hurting of this idea that brings vast sorrow, its just self pity. This is a fact, no?

    • Jorge Kapa
      Hurting of an idea or hurting of an image as k says seems a strange way of talking – how can a thought projection hurt? We can see that there is a great emotional attachment or investment involved. There is a direct relationship between what we are psychologically and what we feel and cherish. Of course suffering hurt involves self pity or grief over what “I” have lost. So what is this I that forms through relationship starting with one’s mother? The infant is nourished emotionally by the mother’s love.

    • Greg VanTongeren lets’ say there is genuine care and affection for the infant – though this is not necessary. The infant feels this affection and there is joy. There is memory of that and if the infant is identified with this memory the infant demands more. Is it right?

    • Greg VanTongeren i think you are right. Yet its possible that the child identifies with these early memories or not.. if this happens isn’t love destroyed (and the same may happen with parents – to identify with their first experiences with their child)?

    • In a world where we must deal with pain and disease and real risk of physical harm, it’s understandable that people get attached to what nourishes inwardly. But attachment is a mistake.

    • Greg VanTongeren i don’t criticize attachment, i don’t blame it, probably you can call it natural, understandable. I just say once attachment is then love is not

  10. we all stay in cities or towns/can we seriously do this exercise-last 15 days how many children born & in which economic status/rich poor/boy/girl/can we dispassionately get the data/how many ceasarians/how many normal deliveries/then can we come to conclusion why the baby chose this family to be born/did it choose misery/did it choose prosperity/why did the baby be born as girl/boy & the economic status choice/we cannot choose anything finally it cannot be explained it comes in the realm of expereince/we need to leave it at that point……

    • yes, i see that, but is it possible that i am aware of all the stereotypes, ideals, ideas (all these are parts of the collective consciousness, right?) that are making me attach, depend on another? may i observe the construction of attachment as it takes place? and may i be aware of the hurting of the idea/image that someone is necessary for me once one dies?

    • Gordon Burgess i’ve seen only particles of a totally different consciousness!

      What i ask is whether its possible to observe the old consciousness! To see how my education from school/family/society affects me, how ideas like “a man has to marry a woman and give birth to children” or “everyone must have at least a few good friends, while others are just not important” make me attach on another.. also to see how the ideas i am constructing make me attach, depend..

      and if its possible to see what happens psychologically once the one i am attached on dies.

      Does my question make any sense?

    • Gordon Burgess it seems possible, yet awareness is so weak.. it comes and goes. Instead of talking theoretically we need to investigate, to see the things the moment they happen!

      The intent of this post was that, to ask people if its possible to see things as they happen, instead of justifying by means of ideas like “attachment is inevitable” “pain is inevitable” “once there is loss i must suffer for a long time and then it fades” or other, more weird ideas like “all this drama makes me stronger” etc. To raise doubt..

    • Attachment is born in love. Right? It is also born in need, right?
      Love and sorrow can go hand in hand. Without any conflict.
      Sorrow is sorrow, love has this action when someone close dies. Sorrow is not depression if it is born in love.
      This whole discussion has tried to understand the whole picture, love is not easy to understand till it is felt without any interference from thoughts…

    • Affection, attachment, joy of togetherness, warmth of friendship all these feelings translate to an underlying love for Being alive.
      Thoughts make a mess when they operate independently of emotional intelligence.

    • Arun Malik i don’t see what is the connection of affection, joy, warmth of togetherness with attachment. They seem to be completely different, no connection at all

    • My doggy is very attached to me and the family. He is a bundle of joy.
      A very naturally emotionally intelligent being.
      Let’s be who we are first. Let’s not let spirtual knowelege fight my very being. Attachment is inevitable in love. Sorrow is born in love.
      How we deal with it requires emotional wisdom which comes with deep silence, not otherwise.

    • Arun Malik no no, on the contrary i’ve seen that in love there is not the slightest attachment, once there is attachment there is no love and this is not a matter of spiritualism, its a matter of direct perception..

      .. probably your doggy or my little cat are not a bundle of joy

    • Chaitanya Talegaonkar i am not sure this is an action of love. Why you say it is?

      what would you say if an adult was crying when her partner was abandoning him/her? Is it an action of love?

    • Maybe i am being a little harsh, but your whole article and everything, makes me want to conclude that maybe you or the author is thinking if not directly then indirectly that love itself is action of self pity. Which is kind of true but not completely it is true. But the truth is still what i said in my first comment ”Attachment in love only symbolizes, one soul’s attempt to love itself in the company of other”. This the best explanation. Manolis and Arun have also said brilliant things.

    • Chaitanya Talegaonkar not at all, on the contrary love has nothing to do with self pity. Self pity is what lies behind grief.

      “So what is actually the root of this grief, this suffering? It appears to be quite clear now: its the the pity for the self, itself! Its just self pity, nothing noble, nothing precious, nothing that has to do with love.”

    • nope haha… Look there is a difference between pity and grief… Grief is the sorrow that i derived from disappearance of love It can also make me think Why it happened, It should not have happened in this way, What was my fault etc… All this is natural. Pity is the movement of mind or conditioning or the change in behavior or the adaption which I create in myself if i keep thinking intentionally all the negative things that happened. At first it is natural but if keep playing movie of that thing in my mind and let it influence me all the time, instead of letting go and resuming my normal composure, then it is self pity. Different people need different amount of time to let go of hurtful memories. For someone maybe 3 weeks or someone maybe a whole year. And that’s why it is better to visit psychiatrist to not let grief or sorrow change our Brain. So finally the person should stop feeling hurt. It is not that the person himself is at fault. Seriousness of thing called love is seldomly understood by those who are not in love.

    • Chaitanya Talegaonkar You refer to the shock of loss. The one we are attached to dies and there is a shock because we are conditioned, we are used to a habitual relationship, and we believe the one that died is necessary for us, we believe that we love this specific person(there is an object of love), so the conditioned mind reacts to this idea: “oh my god i lost this person”. Then its crucial to be aware of this reaction and not escape. If there is awareness, this initial sorrow/shock will dissolve. There will be sense of beauty, peace.

      If not the sorrow will be followed by depression, lengthy grief, self pity.. all these exhausting side effects.. and all these will be probably hidden gradually in a sense of forgetting.

    • Grief and Sorrow are natural situational responses. Self Pity is programmed response which a person can create even without any sorrow. You want to try it? Start thinking how miserable you are and start ignoring all good in life. Sorrow and Grief is respect or tribute in my understanding. Self Pity is lack of self compassion.

    • Chaitanya Talegaonkar You say grief and sorrow is not deriving from thought, from conditioning, right? Probably you are right, probably you are wrong. Why sorrow appears?

    • See there is a state of being which has both sorrow and love in it together and that too consciously. .. Just try to contemplate on what i said, it is very high profile wisdom (lol) Don’t rush to understand it, don’t try to evaluate it with prior knowledge let there be a silent understanding of it. Then you will know the relationship between sorrow, love, silence and thought.

    • most happy is alone…thats the magic of silence.
      Natures gift called life.
      Crowd or people are than my playground, Love has its own wisdom they say. Sometimes gentle sometimes harsh, intent is always the same.

  11. Καλέ μου περιουσία μου νοιώθω τις ψυχές εκείνες που έχω γνωρίσει και έχουν ζεστασιά, γλύκα. ομορφιά μεσα τους που δίνουν χωρίς να ζητούν και που μ’ένα μαγικό τρόπο σε κάνουν να δίνεις κι εσύ και να βλέπεις τη ζωή με άλλο μάτι αυτό μου αφήσε ο πατέρας μου όταν πέθανε στα 19 μου αυτο μου έχουν αφήσει και όλοι οι άλλοι που έχουν φύγει και που αγάπησα σαν ψυχές. Ναι ένοιωσα ανασφάλεια. ναι μου έλειπε η παρουσία του και ναι κάποια στιγμή ένοιωσα εγωίστρια και ναι όλο αυτό είχε να κάνει με μένα και το φιλοσόφησα, συνειδητοποίησα ότι απλά χαίρομαι πολύ που είχα την ευκαιρία να τους γνωρίσω, να συνυπάρξω μαζί τους και να τους αγγίξω ουσιαστικά, όλο αυτό μ’έχει βοηθήσει να γίνω καλύτερος άνθρωπος γι’αυτό και τους ονομάζω περιουσία.

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