Violence: Is the victim separate from the victimizer? | Meditative Diaries



Violence: Is the victim separate from the victimizer?

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Since my previous diary on violence i am seriously investigating this huge issue of Violence. And then came a new dialogue on Violence in our Facebook Group to give more interesting perceptions! It seems that things are not at all as they are traditionally perceived! It seems that there is not a victim separated from the victimizer. We deal with psychological violence here, lets make that clear.

So there is someone that is violently insults me. This man says “you are such a lazy guy, this is unacceptable”. The very next moment seems to be very crucial because it decides whether at all there is a victimizer and a victim, it decides if violence ceases or not.. if i am caught in time, if i am not present, aware, its necessary that hurt will happen after the violent insult. What is the mechanism of hurt? Isn’t it that I’ve built some images about me, images like “i am not lazy” and i’ve invested much energy in them, thus i think its important to keep them safe, valid?  So once someone violently undermines/attacks this image there is inevitably hurt/pain and out of this hurt there is a violent reaction.. its the moment that the victim becomes a victimizer returning violence back to the initial victimizer that is transformed to victim.. so the question is “is the victim separate from the victimizer?” And another question is “is this vicious circle of violence possible to cease”?

Now let’s go back to that crucial moment.. what happens if i am extraordinarily alive and see the hurt that rises? The seeing of the hurt (which as we explained above IS essentialy Violence) reveals all its meaning exactly like the seeing of a tree reveals all the beauty, the shadows, the colors, the flowers.  If i am extraordinarily present, alive, aware, I clearly see the whole movement of violence/insult-hurt-payback. The futility of this circle as well as fictitious character of my broken image that brings about pain is revealed and my alert, alive, sensitive mind is no interested in futility or fictictious entities. This seeing seems to drain the energy of the circle of violencee and there is not enough energy to payback. Thus the circle of violence breaks. So once i am not vulnerable to hurt, to insult, i am not a victim! And thus the victimizer is not a victimizer!

PS: It’s even possible that the seeing of the rising violence happens in a very primordial. non verbal state, when there is nothing more than just a sense! The very seeing of it is vast beauty, immense aliveness!



Jorge Kapa

The speaker is never important but you may examine the message, if you wish


  1. No, the victim is not separate from the victimizer. Both are isolated in their own machinary of thought. Neither relate to what is – which includes honesty, accountability, and responsibility.

  2. Yes, this vicious circle of isolation ceases when choiceless attention prevails. It is a dangerous place for one identified with thought, because Intelligence seems to operate in radical honesty.

  3. to intellectualy stop violence is the continuation of violence.. to think “i should stop this, i will supress my violent reaction” is perpetuation of violence.. it needs only a moment to dissolve violence, once one is aware there is nothing else needed

    • Yes. It’s a violence directed to oneself. As perception unfolds, it seems intellectual understanding, imitation or conformity dissolve. As Manolis says, new energies are then available in the moment…in relationship with what is.

  4. The victim has the sympathy and the victimizer is more close to evil. So , the victimizer soon or later is becoming a victim be haunted , if it is not already , by evil forces .So , do not say poor victimizer you are too a victim as the one that is hearting others consciously , intentionally , is not at all sensitive .

  5. One that is a subject of unfair attacks , not responding externally to any worldly challenge , has the opportunity to react as a whole to end ones for all vulnerability to evil attacks. The reaction must be of the depth. The reaction of the depth is making you serious. Who is vulnerable to personal attacks is in a superficial level , so one must be grateful to the other that is revealing the weaknesses w

  6. Yes. It’s in such moments that the statement, ‘there is no other’ becomes clear. External triggers illuminate internal causes, thought being a hall of distorting mirrors. This is honesty to oneself foremost.

  7. Relax and vulnerability rather they are opposing to each other. One is vulnerable when heart and mind and the energy of attention are not one. Be , one, there is stillness of the mind heart is open and sensitive away from sentimentalism as the energy of attention is the heart undivided.

  8. Yes, this is a question of language useage. I’d say ‘susceptible to hurt’ rather than vulnerable. Open, sensitive and deep feeling has no border controls. Yes, to relax. Not trying to persuade. Just sharing a perspective.

  9. Violence is born in fear as a fight response, we have violence ingrained in the brain as response to physical threat.
    Animals play to practice real fights,
    Kiitens , pupps fight each other playfully…
    Humans fight from threats perceived by thoughts, sometimes logical sometimes for bizzar reasons.
    Greed, jealousy, ego, laziness, selfishness and so on.
    Instinctualy violence is for survival, we use it for supremecy and egoistic purposes.
    We can avoid being victimized, its an art. A loving heart never victimizes. It corrects errors efficiently if they happen.
    Silence for some time awakens my gentleness. Thoughts can never get rid of this problem. No matter how deeply we understand all this, we need an affectionate heart to avoid being a victim and victimizer.

    We need to face reality as is. Intellectual understanding must lead to complete shut down for some time. The brain needs to feel affection and gentleness naturally, than this whole issue can resolve simply.

  10. Push or shove and run…if the opponent can be matched fight. This instinct causes a problem in personal relationships in humans, we think and act, we have dampened our inner love zones by thinking. This is a Psycological problem in our brain now.

  11. Getting to silence simply heals. Meditation has become so complex by stupid post meditative wisdom that even to get to silence has become extremely tough. Thoughts mimic and argue about silence because of post meditative descriptions…

  12. Yes, Arun. Intelligence blossoms in understanding the mischief-making and danger of thought. Not as thinking and thought. Thought can’t resolve this. Description and communication are tools to help cut back thought. Thinking unpicks itself. Explanations and prescriptions don’t help either. Perhaps reality as it is is more chaotic than we allow. Until there is nothing to resolve. Yes, affection arises, when what is is allowed to be exactly what it is. That includes the perception that this might be pointless distraction.

  13. Only thing we should avoid in these discussions is unscientific descriptions of nature of God ( post meditatuve wisdom). Science has come very close in understanding the universe, we should have patience, god is not some wise man…Nature is born from uncertainty and with inherent entropy, a will to perish.

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