Dialogue: What is truth and what is reality? | Meditative Diaries

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truth-and-reality

Dialogue: What is truth and what is reality?

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I noticed a discussion where the terms “truth” and “reality” were mentioned and this is something that somehow feels to be very important! So i grabbed the opportunity to ask a few questions and (probably) an interesting dialogue took place!

  • Jorge: Isn’t reality created by thought? And is reality connected with truth or there is no connection at all? True is something that doesn’t depend on any condition, something that is absolute. Do we both see this? And a thought is real (even if it exists only in my brain), but a thought is definitely not true. Also it seems like a tree is real but it isn’t true while it will cease sometime (so it depends on conditions to exist).
  • Mangalesh: Exactly…so this leads to another fact…that reality is only when there is an observer.. Perhaps truth is what is not identifiable??
  • Jorge: Yes, if its identifiable then it can’t be true.. identification requires knowledge which is limited. Truth is absolute, so how to identify truth?
  • Mangalesh: …perhaps the whole outer world of both reality and false exists in identification and relation…taking this back to thought…so is the outer world a projection of thought?
  • Jorge: This sounds very interesting. Probably outer world, as we perceive it, is a projection of thought (either rational or irrational)
  • Mangalesh: Tree is tree because one senses and identifies…Isn’t it? Otherwise, is there any separation of tree from the rest of life?
  • Jorge: Wow great! If we don’t identify it as a tree, the tree doesn’t exist, its (part of) the whole.. this is what you imply?
  • Mangalesh: My perception is the outcome of my senses and memory processed together…hmm? So when I look at a tree and identify it as tree, in separation from me, it exists…so it seems thought is constructing this world of identification in relation to me…right?
  • Jorge: Sounds very accurate!
  • Mangalesh: Also, from the perspective of science, every object is identifiable in relation to space. Otherwise all the matter with its atomic and subatomic particles and even space resolve into infinite energy. You can identify matter or object only due to space encompassing it. Space separates matter. So this again means all identification is relative.
  • Jorge: There is only energy, which is the whole.. right
  • Mangalesh: Tree is tree because it is surrounded by space. So senses function only relatively, when there is space. Isn’t it?
  • Jorge: Identification happens only by means of “seeing” the boundaries of the object – such boundaries need space around the object, or boundaries don’t exist
  • Mangalesh: So since senses function only relatively, they can never capture truth.
  • Jorge: You refer to body senses, right? Can we experience somehow something true?
  • Mangalesh: So my eyes can perceive tree separated by space from the rest, but they can’t perceive the space that is encompassing all including that tree and myself. My ears can hear the sound separated by silence, but they can’t perceive the silence that is including both the sound and my hearing.. It seems that we are incapable of perceiving truth. Our limited perceptions have capacity to only perceive false. So the truly important question arrives at this point…can we see the false as false…can we see the fallacy of the thought construct? Only when we see false as false and that seeing drops all the identification including ourselves, that action of insight allows awareness to happen…rest all seems to be unidentifiable happening???
  • Jorge: You imply that the awareness of a tree as perception of our limited senses with no judgement or choice is what make sense?
  • Mangalesh: Yes…awareness of tree is quite different from identification of tree…right?
  • Jorge: Exactly like its possible to be aware of my thought with no choice or judgement.. i can also perceive the tree like that.. i’ve never come to this finding till now.. probably it will be very interesting
  • Mangalesh: When I am identifying tree, I am using my senses and experiences, which function in separation as they are controlled by thought. So there actually is no tree but an image of it. In awareness, there is tree without permanent name or form or attributes as there is neither I nor identification.
  • Jorge: No words at all, no identification. There is a real tree and there is awareness of its relativity.
  • Mangalesh: Bang on!

Now if there is only intellectual understanding of that, we won’t go too far.

Comments

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Jorge Kapa

The speaker is never important but you may examine the message, if you wish

2 Comments

  1. so there is life that creates forms.. forms like cell membranes, bacteria, complex organisms and also creates brain..

    .. then brain creates thought. And thought (sane and insane/neurotic) creates reality that includes the perception of a tree (product of sane thought) and the perception of an Ego that seeks pleasure and struggles to avoid pain (product of insane thought). So life is that creates reality (by creating thought)..

    so before the creation of the brain/thought there was only truth?

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