What it is to relate? | Meditative Diaries

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What it is to relate?

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Is relationship among the most important things in life? Part of “to live” is “to relate”, right? But what exactly is a relationship? Is it crystal clear? Is relationship a movement of verbal or non verbal communication, body touch, interest, sharing, cooperation, companionship and affection? And what is the role of Time in a relationship? Time as the past, as experience, as the images we  have for each other..

First we need to find if relationship is a movement in Time. If time plays a role in a relationship i would like to ask if such relationship is an actual one. We see time is experiences, images and time is our expectations for the future. Time is “my friend was there when my girlfriend abandoned me, so i owe him”. And time is “unfortunately my girlfriend is very insecure” or “i think i expect too many things from my friends”. And time is “The three of us had a great time in this trip in Berlin, hopefully we will do it again next year” or “we live together for 12 years and i think we will be together forever”. All this is Time.. now what happens when i have such images for another? What happens when I carry several ideas, images for me and for the one we relate? Isn’t it that our whole approach in relationship is distorted through such images? I think i am patient and you are very demanding  and all my reactions derive from these images.. you may be also be dominated by similar images and you also just react  according to them. Isn’t it actually that we don’t relate at all? Isn’t it that only our images relate? This is obvious, isn’t it? We don’t imply here that memories should be erased (Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind), this would be silly. We just say that once Time is having a psychological effect on a relationship (identification with images, thoughts, memories), the relationship doesn’t exist at all. This is not an opinion of the writer, this is a fact.

So if relationship is not Time, what is it? Is it just to be Present? You meet someone for first time and there is a sense of interest and affection and you share things, you discuss about the problems of life, like friends. You live with your partner for 25 years and there is a moment of vast beauty where you look at him/her as it is the first time you see him/her. This is relationship. To be present, no matter what happened in the past and what are our expectations for the future. Being present, you simply relate, this happens effortlessly. And once you relate its probably another opportunity of learning yourself. Exactly like when watching a tree, a cloud or a bird flying, in a moment of actual relationship its possible to reflect a fold of yourself without the distortive mirror of ideas, images, stereotypes. That very moment you learn about yourself.. you can see the rise of jealousy, the fear of loneliness, the brutality of competition.. it seems like everything can be seen through the mirror of a living, fresh, new relationship. And the moment you learn you need to leave behind what you’ve found so as to not make it another dead image/knowledge.

Again the writer doesn’t matter at all. But if you wish you may examine what is communicated here.

Comments

comments

Jorge Kapa

The speaker is never important but you may examine the message, if you wish

28 Comments

  1. In the beginning of every relationship (so called) there is love and everything is good. But soon thought takes over that relationship and turns it into a possession and commitment and from there conflict and pain starts. Because of the pain we turn away from relationships and become more and more isolated..

  2. I feel that relationship is a work of art in progress. We start from infatuation/passion to love and ultimately to the moment when you feel happy to be with a person with whom you have shared so many significant moments together. And yes, relationship is a movement in time subject to change like all in life. As for the “images” as you call them they either break or make a relationship and it has to do with different background experiences that each person brings into the relationship. For the man the image may be of a fun and pleasant time without commitment whatsoever when for the woman it means marriage a home and children to complete the happy image and vice and versa.If the images coincide then the couple relates and the rel/ship continues but when they are at different end of the spectrum then relationship as we know it, ends.

    • i would question that..once i have a few images, sooner or later there will be conflict with a few images of the other part. And once there is no conflict because they coincide, i can’t see why this simple coincidence is a living relationship. Its just this, a coincidence.

    • just to make sure that we are on the same topic , therefore allow me to ask if we are talking about a relationship between a man/woman, man/man, woman/woman ? Also, are we talking about a real relationship or just in our intellect, an imaginary one ..?

    • i refer to any relationship.. and i ask if any relationship can be free from images.. if not free from images this relationship is imag-inery, fake, false. Its necessary that the images dissolve for actual relating to take place and each time (if any) this happens then there is a moment where relating is actually happening.. if new or old images appear again, while they play a role psychologically then again actual relating is not possible

    • Sorry did not finish the comment..:-) If u are waiting for the perfect disappearance of all images then u should be willing to wait for miracles or decide that u do not want a relationship at all and instead keep the issue at the realm of wishful thinking/ dreaming. In real life there is no perfection & relationships require a lot of commitment & work . Unless one would like to make intellectual conversations. At a personal level , do u honestly believe that u will have a relationship based on ur expectations of perfect harmony, disappearance of images & ultimately relating ? If you do then I wish u the best of luck !

    • Marina Kalorides no not at all, i don’t have a goal to achieve a perfect relationship, i just see that if i actually see an image in action the image vanishes and then relating happens

    • It sounds to me like a perpetual quest for the brief moments free of all images ( if realistically possible) in order to relate. If not, it sounds again that you should resign from any hope of forming a relationship on the grounds of your unwillingness to invest on dissolving images /issues ( and by the way, just to be absolutely clear, any time u get a moment please define your definition of image. In my mind, image corresponds to issues held on various beliefs or ideas ) It is something like an utopia but again, i wish you all the luck of the world.

    • on the contrary, i refer to abandoning all quests… once and if there is awareness of an image in action, the image dissolves and relating is possible.. this just happens.. there is nothing to struggle for, nothing to do intellectually..

      we find it hard, we think its an utopia because we ‘ve learnt in struggling and the absence of struggle seems too difficult.

    • Marina Kalorides , there is no “how to”, it just need to actually see the image acting, because the seeing reveals the triviality of the image and the image dissolves.. it takes just one moment.. you just see the image and the image loses its energy.

      image like “i am a very patient man” “my wife is very insecure” etc..

    • Jorge Kapa i understand better especially with the example of a patent man and the insecure wife… At that point and according to your belief the relating ends ! No effort to understand as to why the wife is insecure and the possibility that you might have caused the insecurities never enters the mind, it just ends and after that , what ??You divorce/end the relationship and search another person to have the elusive time of perfect moments..? if i am asking is because i do really want to understand the rational behind nice concepts on how to relate as per your definition of a relationship. Up to now, i have not seen such blissful relating unless one is at the phase of infatuation when one is blind to all kind of images. And yes, human relationships are a struggle at times because they require commitment of one’s time and effort to make it work otherwise one moves on to the next ? …As for polite, is not out of politeness that i am struggling here to understand the meaning of your writings, it is really due to genuine desire to see how your thinking evolves outside a literary framework. I thank you very much my self for your patience replying to my comments and as i said before, i do wish you to achieve your personal/relational goals regarding the issue in life. It sounds that Chios has magical qualities and maybe should think of moving there to get the kind of belief you have about a real relationship that lasts more after the first ” image ” surfaces..

    • once the image dissolves there is no need for divorce at all..

      my partner carries the image that i should relieve all her insecurity thoughts, i should answer dozens of questions, i should prove what i am doing each hour we are not together, that this is my responsibility and probably i carry the image that “i can’t stand insecurity, this is a huge problem”.. if the images act, there is obviously conflict and not actual relationship.. if i abandon this image, for me there is no problem anymore with her insecurity.. i just don’t criticize her for being insecure and i am present, an alive, sensitive man (which is what we all are, once ideas/images/stereotypes dissolve) that inevitably cares for her and i am also a man that isn’t possible to submit to her or anybody else. On my side i’ve done what its necessary to relate.. if she also abandons her image, then she is in a similar state with me and then we relate, completely free of images and relationship is not imaginary anymore, its just two persons that relate..

      .. no need for analysis, analysis will probably show something but it will create new questions, that’s the fate of analysis.. for example i analyze her insecurity and i see that this happens because i work too much and i don’t have time so much time for her.. then many questions arise.. why the fact that i don’t see her for many hours due to working many hours makes her feel insecure? Why she finds necessary that we are together for many hours to feel safe? why this attachment takes place..? and other questions like.. why do i work so many hours? do i need to work so many hours? am i caught in a trap of struggling for success?

      this just doesn’t work!

      commitment is another image, obviously.. if i remain in a relationship due to such image, then again there is no relationship at all..

    • In a relationship there is no submission only communication between equals. Commitment refers to the willingness to solve an issue in order to stay in the relationship, not slavery. However, if i understand you correctly after the initial effort on your part to reassure your partner about her insecurities and in case she is not convinced then you just retreat because you have done all you suppose to do and wait for her to dissolve her image .. Hopefully she does … and if not, i really hope that you will be able to remain present,sensitive and alive while she is working on her image.

    • Marina Kalorides no retreat, i am just present.. i can’t make someone change, someone changes only if one is willing to do this. so i don’t carry anymore this image “oh its unacceptable that she feels so much insecure” and remain with what is.

      also i would like to notice that submission in relationships is very common if we are a bit honest and observative… and submission is destructive because its an ending of freedom.

      commitment in the sense of willingly remaining in a relationship (so no fear at all) makes sense, quite agreed..

      again if we are a bit honest we will see that many people stay in a relationship not willingly (but because they just submit to some strange ideals/stereotypes) which is again destructive because freedom ceases and once freedom ceases then love is not

  3. There has to be no need of being related. No image for ourselves and then it is not our problem. The other is listening to his own voice. Unfortunately we cannot resolve the problem of another , the inability of being knew each moment and not ,being in the prison of the images make the prison comfortable imprisoning another human being.

    • each demanding desire or goal or need will lead to a trap, it can’t be different. Once there is need of being related, it seems almost impossible to actually relate.

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